History of Thorens

The History of Thorens Through My "Collection" Documenting the history of the company in artifacts.

Summary: 1883 Hermann Thorens starts a firm to make music box movements in Ste. Croix Switzerland. Produces entire boxes and supplies movements to third parties such as Anri, Fred Zimbalist and Sliverite. 1902 (or 1889?) begin making cylinder phonographs. No mention of cylinder phonographs as of 1914. 1906 begin making spring-driven disc gramophones. Become a major supplier of spring-driven motors. 1913-1964 make more than 5 million pocket lighters. 1914-1921 and 1938-1952 make harmonicas. 1928 begin making electric gramophones. 1954-1960 make Riviera mechanical dry shavers. 1956 become successful high-end turn table producers, starting with the TD-124. 1963 merge with Paillard. 1966 de-merge with Paillard, move to Germany, merge with Wilhem Franz's company, EMT, forming Thorens-Franz AG. 1985/86 Reuge SA takes over production of Thorens AD-30 music boxes. 2000 denied bankruptcy protection in Germany. 2002 becomes Thorens Services Ltd in Switzerland. A friend defines a collection as more than one of anything (that's why he gave me an old record cleaner once--he already had one and didn't need another collection). My turntable of choice during my bachelor years was a Thorens TD160. Little did I know the history of the company. When I got into the older players I early on discovered an old wind-up portable Thorens(now I had more than one!). Since then I have kept an eye out to try and 'document'--in artifacts--some Thorens history. It Starts with music boxes-1883 In 1883 Hermann Thorens began making music box mechanisms in Sainte Croix Switzerland. Hermann Thorens 1856-1943 From the Museum of Music Boxes and Automatons, Sainte-Croix: The clockmaker Antoine Favre-Salomon, a native of Geneva, invented a musical pock watch in 1796. [He became known as] the "Inventor of the music box". Sainte-Croix became the world capital of mechanical music. -------------------------------- From "Music boxes: the collector's guide to selecting, restoring, and enjoying new and vintage music boxes"--Gilbert Bahl, 1993, Courage Books [with corrections] "Hermann Thorens Sainte-Croix, Switzerland, 1881-1985. Produced musical movements and music boxes until 1985, when it [the music box concern---not the rest] was bought by Reuge SA. Known for its modern cylinder movements, which are found in many popular collectors' items, such as wooden boxes with revolving tops. The revolving portion often had wooden, hand-carved figures - e.g., Anri - and the base usually had a 28-note movement. The company's movements are also found mounted in a wide range of cases, ranging from simple, well-finished plain boxes to boxes with ornately decorated wooden inlay designs. The disc music boxes were sold under the names Edelwiess and Helvetia. The company was bought by Paillard after WWII [no, 1963 to 1966], and Jean Paul Thorens opened a factory in L' Auberson to produce movements under the trade name Melodies. Trade mark: anchor cast into bedplate of Edelwiess disc machine." Reuge started in 1886. ---------------------------------- From "Music Boxes: a guide for collectors"--David Tallis, 1971, Stein and Day Hermann Thorens "Made small music boxes from 1846 [really? wasn't it 1883?] to 1943 at Ste. Croix" Ernst Paillard "Manager of the (Paillard) Ste. Croix works, with his brother-in-law Eugéne Thorens, forefather of the firm which exists today." ---------------------------------- Click on this picture to view a PDF of a Paillard patent from 1882 which was witnessed by both Eugéne Thorens and Hermann Thorens: But the firm we are interested in is Hermann's which was started in 1883. Click on the picture below to see a patent from 1897 on a mechanical music toy by Hermann Thorens: Click on the picture below to see a 1901 patent by Hermann for a "mechanical musical instrument" looking like a round disc music box: Thorens made both cylinder and disc music box mechanisms. Below is a nice old box into which someone has inserted a more modern Thorens mechanism. I picked it up around 2004. It plays five different songs--the pins strike the notes on the comb. Late in 2009 I picked up the curiousity below. It is a Thorens mechanism in a housing to play "How Dry I Am" while pouring a (presumably alcoholic) beverage. The person who sold it claims, "After my grandfather came back from WWII his first Christmas present was this unique Silverite liquor bottle stopper and pourer. It plays music when the liquid is poured. It comes in its original gift box with brass tag from the jewelry store and still is in very good working condition. The box is 4 x 5 x 2" and has all its complete corners and is marked Silverite Company, Brooklyn 16, New York and Thorens for its quality music box. The music box works are marked Switzerland Thorens, see photos. When tilted 90 decrees, a brass ball swings inside releasing the mechanism which plays How Dry I Am that sounds like a symphony arrangement in a loud pleasing presentation." [I guess that makes another sub-collection started.] Advert from the Milwaukee Journal of April 28, 1947 (pg. 18): Click below to see an odd advert from the April, 1978 edition of Popular Science for a do-it-yourself music box using Thorens disc music box works. But I guess not all their ideas on music boxes were the best as this incident put them on page 1 of the Milwaukee Journal on January 19, 1944: PLEASE DO NOT CONTACT ME WITH MUSIC BOX QUESTIONS! I am no expert on music boxes. If you have any questions, a collector I trust swears by Nancy Fratti who can be found here: http://www.nancyfrattimusicboxes.com/ This page contains some information for restoration and parts service: http://mysite.verizon.net/cbladey/soundmus/thorensmb.html#History A short history of Thorens music boxes is found here: http://www.aerialphotolab.com/Thorens_History.htm As a quick survey. Thorens music boxes seem to fall into these categories: 1) Players of metallic discs: a 4.5" metallic discs with a 30 tooth comb called an AD30 (AD = Automatic Disc?); and 11" (28cm) disc players, called "Edelweiss" or AD41. Later bought by Reuge. An AD30 is below. A great site for this player is here: http://www.thorensad30.com/ An AD41 is below: 2) The following cylinder movements were produced by Thorens and may be in Thorens-made boxes or those of third-parties: 6 songs, 41 notes “#32” 4 songs, “#30” 6 songs, “AL636” 4 songs, 52 notes “AL 450” 3 songs, “AL350” 3 songs, “AL336” 2 songs, “A228” 2 songs, “AL236” 2 songs, “AL241” 1 song, “A128” ? Songs, No. 308 (probably 3) [The pattern seems to be: first number is the number of songs and the second number is an indication of teeth (notes)] 3) Wooden, revolving music figures made by the Italian firm of Anri (here: http://www.anri.com/) using Thorens mechanisms. Some examples are found here: http://pinterest.com/102351/music-boxes/ 4) Particularly ornate music boxes commissioned and imported from India by Fred Zimbalist (a relative of Efram). There are a number of pages regarding these players here: http://www.mmdigest.com/Archives/Digests/201105/2011.05.11.02.html 5) At least two cool toy cars under the brand "Schuco" contained Thorens music box movements. A small picture is below and more info is here.
Next came acoustic phonographs and gramophones-1903 to the 1940s (overlapping with electrics) It was generally accepted that in 1903 Thorens began making cylinder phonographs (at the bottom of the page is cited a publication by Thorens that says the first cylinder machines were made in 1889 but they were first put in their catalog in 1902) and changed in 1906 to outside horn disc gramophones. Other companies did the same with less expertise in spring-driven mechanisms (furniture companies, piano companies, aircraft companies (!) and organ manufacturers). I would be interested in getting any of these older Thorens machines but they are few and far between in North America. I have included links to pages with some great pictures of these older machines. Courtesy of the City of London Phonograph and Gramophone Society, I have copies of portions of three Thorens catalogs--1907, 1910 (although the machines seem more primitive than the 1907s) and 1914--they were bundled into one volume in 1967. I picked up a Thorens parts catalog from 1936 showing tone-arms, sound boxes and miscellaneous bits. Click on the cover below: I have made a translation of the Thorens portion of a Swiss page and greatly expanded it showing cylinder phonographs and disc gramophones from other sources here: Thorens phonographs and gramophones. This is my main overall Thorens acoustic page. In the article The failed 1912 merger between Carl Lindström AG, the Gramophone Company Ltd and the Victor Talking Machine Co Inc., Peter Martland makes the following quote: "In 1911, the Swiss manufacturer Thorens exported clockwork motors for use in British-made disk players to the value of £75,000 [M1,875,000 or $375,000]. In comparison, the machine turnover of the British branch of the Gramophone Company was £108,242 [M2,706,050 or $541,210]. However as the prices of Lindström machines were anything up to eighty per cent cheaper than those of the Gramophone Company, the extent of German and Swiss domination of the British and Russian record player trade must have been phenomenal." Full text--which seems to be part of the Carl Lindsröm AG conference Thursday, 04 December 2008, Budapest--can be found here: <<http://www.phonomuseum.at/includes/content/lindstroem/peter_martland.pdf>> Click on this picture to see a PDF of a 1915 patent by Hermann Thorens on a 'frame for the driving mechanism for talking machines': Click on this picture to see a PDF of a 1917 patent by Hermann Thorens on an 'automatic brake for talking machines': ======================== What I have been able to get so far are: one spring-driven table-top, one portable and one 'cameraphone'. This 2007 acquisition is a table top disc gramophone. Lid and 'volume doors' open. The decoration on the lid and one door. Inside the case. The picture is 'upside down' to show the number in the lower corner ('16'). The naked wood on the left is a modification someone has since made to help guide the crank handle. BTW these Thorens 'pillar-and-plate' motors were available into the 1960s (Recently opened 'old stock' boxes had the motors wrapped in newspaper from April, 1960! Here is a motor purchased around 2005. Here you can see the date on the French language newspaper used for wrapping. Courtesy Paul Flint.) and are now being put into machines built to mimic those of the 1900s (in other words, fake antiques, 'crapophones'). Pictures of a fake on ebay are here. A good website on fakes is here. The motor doesn't have quite the same logo as used elsewhere. Note the anchor. On the bottom of the inside of the case the number is found again. Is this how they matched up the parts for individual machines? Note how the stain was not applied where we wouldn't see. The reproducer has the same anchors so we can assume it was also branded for Thorens--it is marked 'made in Switzerland' (I make this point as some machines of this vintage will have parts from various manufacturers 'thrown' together.) The person who sold this machine to me knew I was interested in the company's history, so he also gave me a letter that was sent to the person who owned it before. This individual wrote to Thorens about the machine in 1965 (when they seemed to still be interested in their history). And Thorens claims that it was made by them in 1925. If this is true, Thorens was able to copy Victor's Orthophonic reproducer work extremely quickly as "Victor Day" (when the Orthophonic technology was released to the public) was November 2, 1925. Perhaps this was after 1925. The style is very consistent with many of the machines from Thoren's 1914 catalog (here). Here is another tabletop Thorens likely of older vintage from John Peel (similar to a Victor Victrola VV-IV). This is my Thorens 'Excelda' 'cameraphone' (picked up around 2004). These were available in black (in wood, with mica diaphragms) starting in 1935 and in various colours (and with metal bodies and diaphragms) from 1942 to 1947 (which gives a date to my green one below--here is picture of all colours except the grey of mine below). With it is a Kodak camera of the style it was made to mimic (A Toronto-made No. 1A Pocket Folding camera series II, 1929-31, originally $24.50). More than one gramophone maker made machines that were portable and looked like cameras. Don't ask me why. The Kodak (which you can also see on the main Family page) opened up. The Excelda opened up. The size of the box forces you to put it on the edge of the table to wind. Once wound, you can put it anywhere to play. To wind again, take off the record and put it back on the edge. The 'turntable' is so small that you must screw the record in place to prevent wobble--and the instructions suggested you use a second record under it to help support the one being played and to help regulate the speed. There's that trademark again. Excelda adverts ("the word's smallest portable phonograph"!): Victoria Advocate, June 25, 1946 (pg. 1) on the left and St. Joseph Gazette, July 25, 1946 (pg. 5) on the right. Youngstown Vindicator, July 16, 1947 (pg. 11). Here is a PDF of the original Excelda instructions (679kb). The Russians (Soviets) made a copy of this machine--an example is here. An Excelda-like machine with Thorens parts labelled "Phonopoche" is here. Thorens also made the 'Graphonette' ultra-small portable, which can be seen here: http://www.grammophon.ch/taschen_grammophone/thorens/thorens.htm
This is a more conventional portable probably made to compete with the great HMV portables of the 30s and 40s (and in the case of the HMV102, the 50s and 60s!). I picked this up at an outdoor antique show in the early 1980s--before the kids came along and put this sort of thing into hiatus--so this is what made the 'collection' official. And here again is... Here is a very similar Thorens portable from Alexandar Pavlovic Here is a different but similar Thorens portable from Greg Legault. Greg's machine looks much like these machines from the Milwaukee Journal of September 17, 1945 (pg. 8)--left--and November 11, 1945 (pg. 21): -Mac McGilbray has a Columbia 122 portable with Thorens motor and turn table. This clearly isn't a retro-fit and suggests another market for Thorens in supplying other marks with hardware (this is not a 'fake' as mentioned above as both the case and hardware are of the same vintage and there is no evidence of this motor replacing any other). Pictures here. -This 'Kompact' cameraphone (not mine) has a Thorens motor here. -Shelby Sim of Sarnia (via Doug) sends these pictures of a 'Pal Jr.' portable (I thought 'Pal' was a Canadian portable from Compo) with a Thorens motor here. -Perophone apparently used Thorens motors. And if you use any of the machines above, you will need to use a new needle for each side of each record. So... The "200 Forte" tin I picked up from Quebec around 1999 and the others sent from Minnesota, France, England, Australia and Finland in 2009 to 2012. There are more I could collect, shown here, but note the collared tin is not shown (link courtesy of "songster.de the (hopefully) largest Needle Tin Collection online" [only seems to work with Microsoft Exploder]). I had not previously seen a collared needle (shown): Detail of a brass container I own, which was called a needle tin but which might actually be a container involving lighters -- see below: Paper holder of Durasteel ("100 plays each!") closed: My friend Horst has two outside-horn Thorens machines. Click on the machines below to see more pictures. I picked up a 1939 French-language Thorens Flier . Click on the image below:
Diversions (1913-1964) Thorens made lighters from 1913 to 1964. Here are two Thorens lighters, a display case, a lighter-filler and an advertisement I picked up along with a 1919 Thorens lighter patent. Thorens made harmonicas from 1914 to 1952. Here is a Thorens harmonica I picked up. Thorens made mechanical razors from 1954 to 1960. Here is a Thorens razor I picked up.
Electric gramophones began in 1928 In 1928 Thorens developed an electric motor for gramophones and continued on in this business. This motor has also been called the first electric 'direct drive' turntable. There is some dispute as the patent cited is by Paillard and all Thorens patents of this time seem to be acoustic gramophones. Click the picture below to see a PDF of a patent assigned to "Hermann Thorens Société Anonyme" in 1944 for "an automatic record changer": Click the picture below to see a PDF of a patent assigned to "Hermann Thorens S.A." in 1945 for a "wireless receiver": The above looks suspiciously like this 'New Century tuner 1949-1952' care of the 'Radio Museum'. Radio museum Thorens info found here: http://radiomuseum.org/m/thorens_ch_en_1.html I picked up a French-langute Thorens brochure from 1953-56 showing turn-tables, record players, speakers and more. CB 13, CB 33, CBA 83, CD 42. Click on the image below to see 10 pages. The following is from Art Dudley's Review in April, 2008 Sterophile of the publication Swiss Precision: The Story of the Thorens TD 124 and Other Classic Turntables by Joachim Bung, published by Joachim and Angelika Bung "In 1956, an engineer named Louis Thévenaz presented his employer with the prototype of a turntable of singularly high quality, aimed at broadcast professionals and the burgeoning domestic audio market alike. The employer was Thorens S.A. of Sainte-Croix, and one year later, the first TD 124 (a tourne-disc, or turntable, with a 12" platter and four speeds) was introduced for the then-remarkable sum of 400 Swiss Francs. With its 10W motor, 10-lb lower platter, clutch-decoupled upper platter, combination drive system of belt and idler wheel, and sculpted good looks, the 22-lb Thorens TD 124 took the audio world by storm: After the Garrard 301 of 1953, the TD 124 was the player to which most European and American hobbyists aspired, and by the time production ceased in 1967, Thorens had made more than 90,000 of them." BTW: 400 Swiss Francs equaled $91.40 in 1956 (at 4.373) and was $730 in 2009 based on CPI. Here is an annoucement on the TD 124 from the Milwaukee Journal of December 1, 1957 (pg. 46): And an article from the St. Petersburg Times of February 7, 1960 (pg. 37): As noted above, Thorens made speakers. Images for DE 8 and BE 8 speakers: here. In 1963, Thorens merged with Paillard SA, Ste.-Croix which at the time was producing Bolex cameras and Hermes typewriters. In 1966 Thorens de-merged with Paillard, 'moved' to Germany and merged with Wilhem Franz's company, EMT, forming Thorens-Franz AG. There are sources that suggest this was some how a cost-cutting move to compete with the Japanese. Thorens would make a big deal about this after 2000 calling it a return to Switzerland. Ottawa Citizen, December 20, 1984. "The 'Better Built' German Turntable". 1972: In their own word, "Thorens develops the TD 160 and writes history." Below is my 'serious' TD160 turntable, first manufactured in 1972. It has a 7 pound platter to help regulate its speed. Currently it is hooked up to the computer to digitize old vinyl recordings otherwise unavailable in digital format. As mentioned above, this is what started the 'collection' (although there was a huge gap between purchasing this one and the portable). Trademark hasn't changed in how long? "In 1975 Thorens builds its 500,000th record player."
1995 Thorens continued making turntables and even introduced CD players. (Below is TCD 2000. They also made the 2300) They were at the Consumer Electronics Show (CES) as late as 1999. However, they ran into trouble by December 2000 and were looking for new investors ('Das Ende'--according to one German source). Being denied bankruptcy protection in Germany, they restructured and re-launched in 2002 as Thorens Services Ltd. under new management. So "one of the oldest and most experienced manufacturers of sound reproduction equipment in Europe" still lives. www.thorens.com does work--sometimes. As noted above, a PDF 'magazine' was available for free download from Thorens in 2008. Within it was a bit of company history in their own words as well as some images. The text and images from this article can be found here. If you are looking for more information on modern Thorens turntables, start with the Analog Department: http://www.theanalogdept.com/thorens_dept_.htm Comments are welcomed!

The History of Thorens Through My "Collection"
Documenting the history of the company in artifacts.

Summary:

1883 Hermann Thorens starts a firm to make music box movements in Ste. Croix Switzerland. Produces entire boxes and supplies movements to third parties such as Anri, Fred Zimbalist and Sliverite.
1902 (or 1889?) begin making cylinder phonographs. No mention of cylinder phonographs as of 1914.
1906 begin making spring-driven disc gramophones. Become a major supplier of spring-driven motors.
1913-1964 make more than 5 million pocket lighters.
1914-1921 and 1938-1952 make harmonicas.
1928 begin making electric gramophones.
1954-1960 make Riviera mechanical dry shavers.
1956 become successful high-end turn table producers, starting with the TD-124.
1963 merge with Paillard.
1966 de-merge with Paillard, move to Germany, merge with Wilhem Franz's company, EMT, forming Thorens-Franz AG.
1985/86 Reuge SA takes over production of Thorens AD-30 music boxes.
2000 denied bankruptcy protection in Germany.
2002 becomes Thorens Services Ltd in Switzerland.

A friend defines a collection as more than one of anything (that's why he gave me an old record cleaner once--he already had one and didn't need another collection). My turntable of choice during my bachelor years was a Thorens TD160. Little did I know the history of the company. When I got into the older players I early on discovered an old wind-up portable Thorens(now I had more than one!). Since then I have kept an eye out to try and 'document'--in artifacts--some Thorens history.

It Starts with music boxes-1883

In 1883 Hermann Thorens began making music box mechanisms in Sainte Croix Switzerland.

Hermann Thorens 1856-1943

From the Museum of Music Boxes and Automatons, Sainte-Croix:

The clockmaker Antoine Favre-Salomon, a native of Geneva, invented a musical pock watch in 1796. [He became known as] the "Inventor of the music box". Sainte-Croix became the world capital of mechanical music.

--------------------------------
From "Music boxes: the collector's guide to selecting, restoring, and enjoying new and vintage music boxes"--Gilbert Bahl, 1993, Courage Books [with corrections]

"Hermann Thorens Sainte-Croix, Switzerland, 1881-1985. Produced musical movements and music boxes until 1985, when it [the music box concern---not the rest] was bought by Reuge SA. Known for its modern cylinder movements, which are found in many popular collectors' items, such as wooden boxes with revolving tops. The revolving portion often had wooden, hand-carved figures - e.g., Anri - and the base usually had a 28-note movement. The company's movements are also found mounted in a wide range of cases, ranging from simple, well-finished plain boxes to boxes with ornately decorated wooden inlay designs. The disc music boxes were sold under the names Edelwiess and Helvetia. The company was bought by Paillard after WWII [no, 1963 to 1966], and Jean Paul Thorens opened a factory in L' Auberson to produce movements under the trade name Melodies. Trade mark: anchor cast into bedplate of Edelwiess disc machine."

Reuge started in 1886.
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From "Music Boxes: a guide for collectors"--David Tallis, 1971, Stein and Day

Hermann Thorens "Made small music boxes from 1846 [really? wasn't it 1883?] to 1943 at Ste. Croix"
Ernst Paillard "Manager of the (Paillard) Ste. Croix works, with his brother-in-law Eugéne Thorens, forefather of the firm which exists today."
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Click on this picture to view a PDF of a Paillard patent from 1882 which was witnessed by both Eugéne Thorens and Hermann Thorens:

But the firm we are interested in is Hermann's which was started in 1883.

Click on the picture below to see a patent from 1897 on a mechanical music toy by Hermann Thorens:

Click on the picture below to see a 1901 patent by Hermann for a "mechanical musical instrument" looking like a round disc music box:

Thorens made both cylinder and disc music box mechanisms.

Below is a nice old box into which someone has inserted a more modern Thorens mechanism. I picked it up around 2004.

It plays five different songs--the pins strike the notes on the comb.

Late in 2009 I picked up the curiousity below. It is a Thorens mechanism in a housing to play "How Dry I Am" while pouring a (presumably alcoholic) beverage.

The person who sold it claims, "After my grandfather came back from WWII his first Christmas present was this unique Silverite liquor bottle stopper and pourer. It plays music when the liquid is poured. It comes in its original gift box with brass tag from the jewelry store and still is in very good working condition. The box is 4 x 5 x 2" and has all its complete corners and is marked Silverite Company, Brooklyn 16, New York and Thorens for its quality music box. The music box works are marked Switzerland Thorens, see photos. When tilted 90 decrees, a brass ball swings inside releasing the mechanism which plays How Dry I Am that sounds like a symphony arrangement in a loud pleasing presentation."

[I guess that makes another sub-collection started.]

Advert from the Milwaukee Journal of April 28, 1947 (pg. 18):

Click below to see an odd advert from the April, 1978 edition of Popular Science for a do-it-yourself music box using Thorens disc music box works.

But I guess not all their ideas on music boxes were the best as this incident put them on page 1 of the Milwaukee Journal on January 19, 1944:

PLEASE DO NOT CONTACT ME WITH MUSIC BOX QUESTIONS! I am no expert on music boxes.

If you have any questions, a collector I trust swears by Nancy Fratti who can be found here: http://www.nancyfrattimusicboxes.com/
This page contains some information for restoration and parts service: http://mysite.verizon.net/cbladey/soundmus/thorensmb.html#History
A short history of Thorens music boxes is found here: http://www.aerialphotolab.com/Thorens_History.htm
As a quick survey. Thorens music boxes seem to fall into these categories:

1) Players of metallic discs: a 4.5" metallic discs with a 30 tooth comb called an AD30 (AD = Automatic Disc?); and 11" (28cm) disc players, called "Edelweiss" or AD41. Later bought by Reuge.

An AD30 is below. A great site for this player is here: http://www.thorensad30.com/

An AD41 is below:

2) The following cylinder movements were produced by Thorens and may be in Thorens-made boxes or those of third-parties:

6 songs, 41 notes “#32”

4 songs, “#30”

6 songs, “AL636”

4 songs, 52 notes “AL 450”

3 songs, “AL350”

3 songs, “AL336”

2 songs, “A228”

2 songs, “AL236”

2 songs, “AL241”

1 song, “A128”

? Songs, No. 308 (probably 3)

[The pattern seems to be: first number is the number of songs and the second number is an indication of teeth (notes)]

3) Wooden, revolving music figures made by the Italian firm of Anri (here: http://www.anri.com/) using Thorens mechanisms. Some examples are found here: http://pinterest.com/102351/music-boxes/
4) Particularly ornate music boxes commissioned and imported from India by Fred Zimbalist (a relative of Efram). There are a number of pages regarding these players here: http://www.mmdigest.com/Archives/Digests/201105/2011.05.11.02.html
5) At least two cool toy cars under the brand "Schuco" contained Thorens music box movements. A small picture is below and more info is here.

Next came acoustic phonographs and gramophones-1903 to the 1940s (overlapping with electrics)

It was generally accepted that in 1903 Thorens began making cylinder phonographs (at the bottom of the page is cited a publication by Thorens that says the first cylinder machines were made in 1889 but they were first put in their catalog in 1902) and changed in 1906 to outside horn disc gramophones. Other companies did the same with less expertise in spring-driven mechanisms (furniture companies, piano companies, aircraft companies (!) and organ manufacturers). I would be interested in getting any of these older Thorens machines but they are few and far between in North America. I have included links to pages with some great pictures of these older machines.

Courtesy of the City of London Phonograph and Gramophone Society, I have copies of portions of three Thorens catalogs--1907, 1910 (although the machines seem more primitive than the 1907s) and 1914--they were bundled into one volume in 1967.

I picked up a Thorens parts catalog from 1936 showing tone-arms, sound boxes and miscellaneous bits. Click on the cover below:

I have made a translation of the Thorens portion of a Swiss page and greatly expanded it showing cylinder phonographs and disc gramophones from other sources here: Thorens phonographs and gramophones. This is my main overall Thorens acoustic page.

In the article The failed 1912 merger between Carl Lindström AG, the Gramophone Company Ltd and the Victor Talking Machine Co Inc., Peter Martland makes the following quote:
"In 1911, the Swiss manufacturer Thorens exported clockwork motors for use in British-made disk players to the value of £75,000 [M1,875,000 or $375,000]. In comparison, the machine turnover of the British branch of the Gramophone Company was £108,242 [M2,706,050 or $541,210]. However as the prices of Lindström machines were anything up to eighty per cent cheaper than those of the Gramophone Company, the extent of German and Swiss domination of the British and Russian record player trade must have been phenomenal."
Full text--which seems to be part of the Carl Lindsröm AG conference Thursday, 04 December 2008, Budapest--can be found here: <<http://www.phonomuseum.at/includes/content/lindstroem/peter_martland.pdf>>

Click on this picture to see a PDF of a 1915 patent by Hermann Thorens on a 'frame for the driving mechanism for talking machines':

Click on this picture to see a PDF of a 1917 patent by Hermann Thorens on an 'automatic brake for talking machines':

========================

What I have been able to get so far are: one spring-driven table-top, one portable and one 'cameraphone'.

This 2007 acquisition is a table top disc gramophone.

Lid and 'volume doors' open.

The decoration on the lid and one door.

Inside the case. The picture is 'upside down' to show the number in the lower corner ('16'). The naked wood on the left is a modification someone has since made to help guide the crank handle. BTW these Thorens 'pillar-and-plate' motors were available into the 1960s (Recently opened 'old stock' boxes had the motors wrapped in newspaper from April, 1960! Here is a motor purchased around 2005. Here you can see the date on the French language newspaper used for wrapping. Courtesy Paul Flint.) and are now being put into machines built to mimic those of the 1900s (in other words, fake antiques, 'crapophones'). Pictures of a fake on ebay are here. A good website on fakes is here.

The motor doesn't have quite the same logo as used elsewhere. Note the anchor.

On the bottom of the inside of the case the number is found again. Is this how they matched up the parts for individual machines? Note how the stain was not applied where we wouldn't see.

The reproducer has the same anchors so we can assume it was also branded for Thorens--it is marked 'made in Switzerland' (I make this point as some machines of this vintage will have parts from various manufacturers 'thrown' together.)

The person who sold this machine to me knew I was interested in the company's history, so he also gave me a letter that was sent to the person who owned it before. This individual wrote to Thorens about the machine in 1965 (when they seemed to still be interested in their history).

And Thorens claims that it was made by them in 1925.

If this is true, Thorens was able to copy Victor's Orthophonic reproducer work extremely quickly as "Victor Day" (when the Orthophonic technology was released to the public) was November 2, 1925. Perhaps this was after 1925. The style is very consistent with many of the machines from Thoren's 1914 catalog (here).

Here is another tabletop Thorens likely of older vintage from John Peel (similar to a Victor Victrola VV-IV).

This is my Thorens 'Excelda' 'cameraphone' (picked up around 2004). These were available in black (in wood, with mica diaphragms) starting in 1935 and in various colours (and with metal bodies and diaphragms) from 1942 to 1947 (which gives a date to my green one below--here is picture of all colours except the grey of mine below). With it is a Kodak camera of the style it was made to mimic (A Toronto-made No. 1A Pocket Folding camera series II, 1929-31, originally $24.50). More than one gramophone maker made machines that were portable and looked like cameras. Don't ask me why.

The Kodak (which you can also see on the main Family page) opened up.

The Excelda opened up.

The size of the box forces you to put it on the edge of the table to wind. Once wound, you can put it anywhere to play. To wind again, take off the record and put it back on the edge. The 'turntable' is so small that you must screw the record in place to prevent wobble--and the instructions suggested you use a second record under it to help support the one being played and to help regulate the speed.

There's that trademark again.

Excelda adverts ("the word's smallest portable phonograph"!):

Victoria Advocate, June 25, 1946 (pg. 1) on the left and St. Joseph Gazette, July 25, 1946 (pg. 5) on the right.

Youngstown Vindicator, July 16, 1947 (pg. 11).

Here is a PDF of the original Excelda instructions (679kb).

The Russians (Soviets) made a copy of this machine--an example is here.

An Excelda-like machine with Thorens parts labelled "Phonopoche" is here.

Thorens also made the 'Graphonette' ultra-small portable, which can be seen here: http://www.grammophon.ch/taschen_grammophone/thorens/thorens.htm

This is a more conventional portable probably made to compete with the great HMV portables of the 30s and 40s (and in the case of the HMV102, the 50s and 60s!). I picked this up at an outdoor antique show in the early 1980s--before the kids came along and put this sort of thing into hiatus--so this is what made the 'collection' official.

And here again is...

Here is a very similar Thorens portable from Alexandar Pavlovic
Here is a different but similar Thorens portable from Greg Legault.
Greg's machine looks much like these machines from the Milwaukee Journal of September 17, 1945 (pg. 8)--left--and November 11, 1945 (pg. 21):

-Mac McGilbray has a Columbia 122 portable with Thorens motor and turn table. This clearly isn't a retro-fit and suggests another market for Thorens in supplying other marks with hardware (this is not a 'fake' as mentioned above as both the case and hardware are of the same vintage and there is no evidence of this motor replacing any other). Pictures here.

-This 'Kompact' cameraphone (not mine) has a Thorens motor here.
-Shelby Sim of Sarnia (via Doug) sends these pictures of a 'Pal Jr.' portable (I thought 'Pal' was a Canadian portable from Compo) with a Thorens motor here.
-Perophone apparently used Thorens motors.

And if you use any of the machines above, you will need to use a new needle for each side of each record. So...

The "200 Forte" tin I picked up from Quebec around 1999 and the others sent from Minnesota, France, England, Australia and Finland in 2009 to 2012. There are more I could collect, shown here, but note the collared tin is not shown (link courtesy of "songster.de the (hopefully) largest Needle Tin Collection online" [only seems to work with Microsoft Exploder]).

I had not previously seen a collared needle (shown):

Detail of a brass container I own, which was called a needle tin but which might actually be a container involving lighters -- see below:

Paper holder of Durasteel ("100 plays each!") closed:

My friend Horst has two outside-horn Thorens machines. Click on the machines below to see more pictures.

I picked up a 1939 French-language Thorens Flier . Click on the image below:

Diversions (1913-1964)

Thorens made lighters from 1913 to 1964. Here are two Thorens lighters, a display case, a lighter-filler and an advertisement I picked up along with a 1919 Thorens lighter patent.

Thorens made harmonicas from 1914 to 1952. Here is a Thorens harmonica I picked up.

Thorens made mechanical razors from 1954 to 1960. Here is a Thorens razor I picked up.

Electric gramophones began in 1928

In 1928 Thorens developed an electric motor for gramophones and continued on in this business. This motor has also been called the first electric 'direct drive' turntable. There is some dispute as the patent cited is by Paillard and all Thorens patents of this time seem to be acoustic gramophones.

Click the picture below to see a PDF of a patent assigned to "Hermann Thorens Société Anonyme" in 1944 for "an automatic record changer":

Click the picture below to see a PDF of a patent assigned to "Hermann Thorens S.A." in 1945 for a "wireless receiver":

The above looks suspiciously like this 'New Century tuner 1949-1952' care of the 'Radio Museum'.

Radio museum Thorens info found here: http://radiomuseum.org/m/thorens_ch_en_1.html

I picked up a French-langute Thorens brochure from 1953-56 showing turn-tables, record players, speakers and more. CB 13, CB 33, CBA 83, CD 42. Click on the image below to see 10 pages.

The following is from Art Dudley's Review in April, 2008 Sterophile of the publication
Swiss Precision: The Story of the Thorens TD 124 and Other Classic Turntables
by Joachim Bung, published by Joachim and Angelika Bung

"In 1956, an engineer named Louis Thévenaz presented his employer with the prototype of a turntable of singularly high quality, aimed at broadcast professionals and the burgeoning domestic audio market alike. The employer was Thorens S.A. of Sainte-Croix, and one year later, the first TD 124 (a tourne-disc, or turntable, with a 12" platter and four speeds) was introduced for the then-remarkable sum of 400 Swiss Francs. With its 10W motor, 10-lb lower platter, clutch-decoupled upper platter, combination drive system of belt and idler wheel, and sculpted good looks, the 22-lb Thorens TD 124 took the audio world by storm: After the Garrard 301 of 1953, the TD 124 was the player to which most European and American hobbyists aspired, and by the time production ceased in 1967, Thorens had made more than 90,000 of them."

BTW: 400 Swiss Francs equaled $91.40 in 1956 (at 4.373) and was $730 in 2009 based on CPI.

Here is an annoucement on the TD 124 from the Milwaukee Journal of December 1, 1957 (pg. 46):

And an article from the St. Petersburg Times of February 7, 1960 (pg. 37):

As noted above, Thorens made speakers. Images for DE 8 and BE 8 speakers: here.

In 1963, Thorens merged with Paillard SA, Ste.-Croix which at the time was producing Bolex cameras and Hermes typewriters.

In 1966 Thorens de-merged with Paillard, 'moved' to Germany and merged with Wilhem Franz's company, EMT, forming Thorens-Franz AG. There are sources that suggest this was some how a cost-cutting move to compete with the Japanese. Thorens would make a big deal about this after 2000 calling it a return to Switzerland.

Ottawa Citizen, December 20, 1984. "The 'Better Built' German Turntable".

1972: In their own word, "Thorens develops the TD 160 and writes history."

Below is my 'serious' TD160 turntable, first manufactured in 1972. It has a 7 pound platter to help regulate its speed. Currently it is hooked up to the computer to digitize old vinyl recordings otherwise unavailable in digital format. As mentioned above, this is what started the 'collection' (although there was a huge gap between purchasing this one and the portable).

Trademark hasn't changed in how long?

"In 1975 Thorens builds its 500,000th record player."

1995 Thorens continued making turntables and even introduced CD players. (Below is TCD 2000. They also made the 2300)

They were at the Consumer Electronics Show (CES) as late as 1999. However, they ran into trouble by December 2000 and were looking for new investors ('Das Ende'--according to one German source). Being denied bankruptcy protection in Germany, they restructured and re-launched in 2002 as Thorens Services Ltd. under new management. So "one of the oldest and most experienced manufacturers of sound reproduction equipment in Europe" still lives. www.thorens.com does work--sometimes.

As noted above, a PDF 'magazine' was available for free download from Thorens in 2008. Within it was a bit of company history in their own words as well as some images. The text and images from this article can be found here.

If you are looking for more information on modern Thorens turntables, start with the Analog Department: http://www.theanalogdept.com/thorens_dept_.htm

Comments are welcomed!